Specs for VE2000GG DLX

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PhilBell
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Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby PhilBell » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:34 pm

I ordered a Signature Deluxe from Gear4Music, which I think they had to order from JHS and which was delivered direct to me. It arrived Friday, but with a fretboard problem. Although mail-order sites like Gear4Music and Reidys say "Neck : Mahogany, fingerboard Ebony" (compared to "Fingerboard Rosewood" on the non-Deluxe version) the fingerboard on mine had patches where the fingerboard was not stained black, but showed a light wood which looks more like some king of composite to me. I'd like to attach a picture at this point but don't know how to upload the photo. JHS's web page for the VE2000GG DLX coincidentally doesn't currently specify the fingerboard material.

Does anyone know if JHS and Vintage have been downgrading the spec for the actual Deluxe guitars being shipped from the original described on the mail-order websites? There's certainly been a Quality Assurance failure at the factory, shipping a guitar with a very visible defect.

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GORDON
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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby GORDON » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:34 pm

Hi Phil.

As far as I'm aware the specs for the deluxe should be as it has always been,ebony fingerboard,rosewood back laminate sides etc.I have no knowledge of a downgrading of material.

The deluxe in my opinion has always been an outstanding guitar in terms of material used and construction.I use mine on stage all the time as you probably know.

Would you mind ringing JHS direct and speaking with Tom in sales who will Im sure be more than happy to discuss any issues you have with the instrument.Their number is 01132866411.

Let me know how you get on sir,and thanks for the heads up on this one.Regards.Gordon.

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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby PhilBell » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:31 pm

Thank you for taking the time to reply, Mr Giltrap; I didn't expect to get all the way to "the man".

I am to guitars what Cyril Smith was to hang gliding; to me, "ebony" is known as "a black wood", so when I opened my delivery and found pale "fingerprints" on the fret board (if you are interested, I e-mailed a photo to Sue to ask her to add it to the post) I assumed either a manufacturing error or an outright deception.

I took the guitar in to my local luthier this morning, and he's happy that the pale patches are in fact ebony. His story is that years ago the wood companies would only pay the local workers for trees that were all black, but they couldn't tell what colour the wood would be until they'd cut the trees down, so lots of felled trees were just left to rot because they couldn't be sold. Nowadays, conservation pressures are leading to these "waste" trees being used, so it just happens that I got a model where the fingerboard had some zones of "not black" ebony. The JHS spec page for the Deluxe

https://www.jhs.co.uk/products/guitars-folk-instruments/acoustic-guitars/vintage/gordon-giltrap-series/vintage-gordon-giltrap-signature-deluxe-electro-acoustic-natural

doesn't actually say what material is used for the fingerboard, either by accident or design; it just says "Neck: mahogany". It might not be a bad idea for it to say "ebony that might not be uniformly black" or similar, to avoid creating a bad impression in ignorant customers like me? Certainly my initial reaction to my guitar was disappointment.

I agree that the Deluxe is excellent - probably more excellent than my lack of talent allows me to fully appreciate or exploit. I started with an all-mahogany V2000 pure acoustic, and added the VE2000 simply as a "better acoustic" - I don't think I'll ever be good enough for anyone to want to hear an amplified version of my playing, they're much more likely to say "please keep quite" - but at least I know I own a good guitar.

Sincerely

Phil bell

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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby PhilBell » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:43 pm

I'm too "modernity-challenged" to know if this will work for anyone but me, but I tried to post the photo of my fingerboard discoloration

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1709599702489628&set=a.1709599895822942.1073741826.100003188449769&type=3

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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby GORDON » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:42 pm

Hi Phil.

Thanks so much for posting that picture.Yes indeed I can see the difference in colour,but it I as you say still ebony.I don't really know what to say except to get in touch with the supplier and ask if it's possible to exchange it for one with a denser ebony for the fingerboard.It may still be an idea to speak with Tom at JHS to see if it could be exchanged directly from them.Leave it with me and I shall give them a call.Watch this space.

Can I just say that regardless of what ability you have my friend you still deserve a nice instrument, and believe me we are all standing on the shoulders of giants! There are many times that I think I'm desperately lacking in the guitar technique stakes.Will get back to you.Be well.G.

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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby GORDON » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:58 pm

Hi Phil.

OK,I have spoken with Tom at JHS,and he has asked me to tell you to give him a ring and see if we can resolve this issue.Obviously it is as far as you have explained a cosmetic issue and not a structural one, but be that as it may if you aren't happy then I'm sure they can exchange it for you or at least get GEAR FOR MUSIC to exchange it for one without the colouring on the fingerboard.

I hope this is of help to you sir.

Sorry for any disappointment caused and inconvenience.

Be well.

G.

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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby PhilBell » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:44 pm

Thanks very much for spending so much time on this, and the interest. Clearly this is absolutely no fault of yours, so although I appreciate your "sorry", there's absolutely no need for it. I'm very happy with the quality of the guitar, and proud to be an owner.

You've been far more help than I had any right to expect.

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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby GORDON » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:04 pm

You are more than welcome.Enjoy your guitar.I suggest if you haven't done so already,get it set up to your playing style.I favour a VERY LOW action and Martin SP 11-52 sets phosphor bronze strings.

Be well.

G.

PhilBell
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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby PhilBell » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:22 pm

Thank you for that, sir. I don't know if my VE2000 should have had an "owner's manual" but it didn't, so the "strings" suggestion is welcome.

The playability as delivered seems fine to me, although my early guitar heroes were Nic Jones, Martin Carthy and Phil Beer, so I think I'm more percussive (aka heavy-handed) than your more classical style. You've done a sterling job by bringing great guitars to the masses. I'm very pleased with both of mine.

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Roger
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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby Roger » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:13 pm

Hi Phil,

Have a look at:

https://www.quora.com/Brand-new-rosewoo ... Any-issues

By the way I own a Vintage travel guitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWoyjA_zaLc

The rosewood fretboard had a few lighter parts, but for me this was never an issue. I did have a problem with one or two of the higher frets, but I'd have to say that JHS were really good about this and solved the problem. They also set up the guitar nicely too. For my money what I have is a great little guitar with a bright sound. It's also very versatile. Have a look at Gordon playing it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sMc1w0LhTQ

If you look closely you'll see a few variations in the colour of his fretboard too, but it doesn't seem to affect his sound :)

All the best,

Roger
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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby Trevor Raggatt » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:06 pm

It's worth having a look at this video by Bob Taylor, the founder of Taylor guitars from a few years ago about the ebony that we use for guitar building.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY

The pure black ebony that we have become used to is simply a tiny fraction of the perfectly good ebony which is entirely suitable for guitar building. That's been a purely aesthetic choice by the market rather than one based on the resonant and sound producing properties of the wood - and has led to huge levels of wastefulness. The use of more naturally coloured ebony in the building of guitars isn't reflective of "substandard" materials being used or a "deception" thing. It's a forward thinking approach. Increasingly we are going to see ebony which has some colouring included (and/or pure black ebony will be preserved for premium applications at a similarly premium uplift in price) - doubly so now that CITES restrictions have started to be imposed on the trade and movement of rosewood. Personally, I think that Vintage should be applauded for more sustainable use of this beautiful wood (and the natural variations which can be found in ebony really are beautiful in terms of figure and colouring) - they are at the leading edge of what will become the new "normal" over the coming years.

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Re: Specs for VE2000GG DLX

Postby Roosville » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:08 am

There is an old woodworkers trick to produce an ebony look from other species of wood. If you have an area that is lighter than other areas then this will fix it. Firstly, buy some WHITE vinegar and some steel wool. Wash the steel wool in soapy water and rinse very thoroughly to remove all the oil. Place the vinegar and steel wool in an old coffee jar and put it somewhere safe for a week or so. The vinegar will rust and dissolve the steel wool during this time. Using a cloth apply the solution to the fretboard, you only need to dampen the wood don’t try to wash it in solution and try not to let it gather too much at the frets. In under an hour you will see a distinct blackening of the wood. Next day the process will be complete and you should clean it all down with some lemon oil. It will help to get rid of the newly acquired vinegar smell too.

If the process doesn’t darken enough then go and make a very strong cup of tea. Leave some of the tea in the pot and let it cool. Wipe the fretboard with tea and the apply the ebonising solution when the tea is dry. The darkening process acts on the natural tannin in the wood so adding tea is an easy way to add some additional tannin, also naturally to the wood.

I know this all sound a bit cranky but it is a common woodwork practice from old, and worked a treat on a fretboard I have. I would add lastly , if you have applied silicon type polish (pledge etc) to the fretboard then this may act as a barrier to the ebonising solution.

Regards

Robin.


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