GG 12 String Possible Issue

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HawkofMay
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GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby HawkofMay » Thu May 10, 2012 6:30 am

I have been looking to buy a 12 string and already having a Gordon Giltrap 6 string I was considering the GG 12. However I have seen two up on ebay recently that have had problems with a bowing body and lifting bridge (including the one on the link below) and was wondering if there was an inherent problem with it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-VE200 ... 835wt_1163

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GORDON
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby GORDON » Thu May 10, 2012 2:07 pm

THANKYOU.

For bringing this to my attention.I have ALWAYS said that when stringing a 12 string NEVER tune to concert pitch unless using extra light gauge strings. The pull is far too much using a heavier set and bellying will happen if the guitar is of a lighter construction.

UNLESS a 12 string has been heavily built to withstand the pull from 12 strings this problem can happen. I firmly believe that now this person selling the guitar on E-Bay has fitted a lighter set then it should be fine.

I fit 11 gauge strings but tune it FAR lower than concert pitch to C and it sounds fine.

Although my GG was never intended to be a 12 string version (it was the companies decision) it does work superbly well as a 12 string, as all the great reviews will testify. Mine sounds wonderful. I would certainly not hesitate in looking at the GG 12 but be mindfull that 13 gauge string tuned to standard concert pitch will be a hell of a lot of pull on the neck. It will also be a devil to try and play, UNLESS you have fists of steel!

Thanks again for your very usefull posting and much appreciated. If we don't know what's happening out there we can't do anything to rectify any problems that's for sure.

I'm sure your posting will attract a few comments!

Be Well.

G.

HawkofMay
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby HawkofMay » Thu May 10, 2012 6:29 pm

Thanks Gordon for your response. Having seen the picture of the guitar in the ebay auction would you think it a reasonable prospect given the bridge still seems a little lifted? It is going to go for quite a low price. As far as string are concerned would you think 10's and de-tuned one tone from concert would suffice?

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Sue
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby Sue » Thu May 10, 2012 6:38 pm

Hi,

thought I'd just post a quick reply to let you know Gordon is unlikely to get online again and be able to reply until after this auction ends as he is away from this afternoon for a gig in Cornwall tomorrow.

Any other forum members able to advise on this one ??

cheers
Sue
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scottj1
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby scottj1 » Thu May 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Hello there

For what it's worth here's my take on it.The strings that are supplied with GG vintage series guitars are made by D'addario.They don't actually make 13 gauge medium sets for a 12 string and I don't think any major manufacturers do so perhaps the ad isn't correct in stating that.

For what price it is up at I would go for it and put extra light 10 gauges on ,I'll bet it could be easily sorted.

I doubt that the damage would be terminal to the guitar...

Thinking about it I can't imagine any 12 string capable of taking medium 13 gauge strings at concert pitch.

Just a thought anyway.

Good luck

HawkofMay
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby HawkofMay » Fri May 11, 2012 6:41 am

Thanks to Sue and Scott. I'll put a modest bid in and see how it goes.

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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby Paganwolf » Fri May 11, 2012 10:49 am

For my two-penn'orth

Unless a 12 string is designed and engineered to take the extra strain from the outset, there is always the possibility that existing load bearing components (can't you tell i'm a design engineer? :lol: ) will fail over a period of time, in a guitar, as already mentioned, this will be a bowing of the top, lifting of the bridge and pulling of the neck among other symptoms.
Even though my Takamine is built like a volvo to counteract all this, What I do with this one and my original 12 string from years back is to down tune by a note (2 frets), use a 10 / 11 set, and to use a dogs claw capo, the type of thing shown here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-Flat-Change-Clamp-Clip-Key-Capo-Electric-Classical-Acoustic-Guitar-/300625570763?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item45feae2bcb to bring it back to standard tune or to compensate for other tuning arrangements.

Best of luck and from what I can see, the damage already there is by no means terminal, any half decent luthier would be able to fix this for you, In many ways, its still surprises me how resiliant acoustic guitars are in comparison to their electric cousins and in many ways, simpler to put right.

Regards
Witches ride brooms as nature abhores a vacuum

HawkofMay
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby HawkofMay » Fri May 11, 2012 4:01 pm

Thanks Paganwolf (ah good another heathen!) your 'two-penn'orth' was most welcome. I have put a bid in and await the outcome.

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Russ Gannicott
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby Russ Gannicott » Fri May 11, 2012 11:30 pm

I think there are several factors at play here - firstly, the 12 hasn't had the R&D that the 6 has, ie 30 years of proving itself as a stable guitar! Secondly, as I believe the 12 was rushed out fairly quickly by the factory I would guess that a few 'rogues' got through their usually vigorous QA control. A bridge that is unglueing itself is far less of a problem than a bowed top which can only be caused by either failed glue joints or bent struts! If the struts bow over time (EKO Ranger 12) then it is not a problem, just something you get to live with and can normally compensate for, if however it happens quickly, then you will need to allow for a visit to your tame luthier and expect a bill that reflects the fact that he has had to remove and re-glue the table.
On the subject of tuning, I would agree that an old 12 is often happiest drop tuned and cappo'd, which is fine, but there is a very fine line between over-stressing and under-stressing a neck. I have seen dozens of vintage guitars ruined because the owners have stored them away without strings. I would far rather sort out a bowed top than a warped neck, especially on a new guitar. So, my advice would be to buy a guitar that has a track record - even just a couple of years, or buy it new and rely on the warranty, either way you can't lose. If you buy on ebay, then your maximum bid should really reflect the risks you are taking.

HawkofMay
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby HawkofMay » Sat May 12, 2012 7:48 am

Good advice Russ. The guitar on ebay went for £157. I was not prepared to go that high just in case further repairs prove costly (the GG 12 string guitar anyway can be picked up new and without fault on ebay for under £400). I am currently selling my Faith Neptune High Gloss so I should be able to fund a 12 string once that goes. Thanks again to all who gave your advice on stringing this type of guitar.

HawkofMay
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby HawkofMay » Sat May 12, 2012 8:11 am

The ebay auction for the faulty guitar finished yesterday with a winning bid of just over £157 (click link on first post above to verify). Today the same seller has put up another GG 12 string on ebay with exactly the same problem and description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-VE200 ... 3DI%252BUA

Something funny or has he just been unlucky?

scottj1
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby scottj1 » Sat May 12, 2012 8:27 am

That seems a bit strange doesn't it

I notice they have changed the ad to say it was strung with 12's rather than 13's on the previous one.

I still think it wasn't a bad buy at £157,you don't get much for that these days and you get a good case with it but I reckon it just hadn't been cared for properly.

Good luck with selling the Faith!!

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Sue
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby Sue » Sat May 12, 2012 9:30 am

HawkofMay wrote:The ebay auction for the faulty guitar finished yesterday with a winning bid of just over £157 (click link on first post above to verify). Today the same seller has put up another GG 12 string on ebay with exactly the same problem and description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-VE200 ... 3DI%252BUA

Something funny or has he just been unlucky?


Neither as far as I can see, the guy runs a music store - I did a quick look through some of his other items, came across several acoustics listed as "importers rejects" and "seller refurbished" so I guess he has contacts enabling him to buy up damaged guitars some of which he repairs and sells them on Ebay.

Mystery solved !

Sue
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HawkofMay
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby HawkofMay » Sat May 12, 2012 11:43 am

Thanks Sue, I've just had a look at his shop and he has a number of other Vintage guitars with more minor issues going quite cheaply.

kevin
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Re: GG 12 String Possible Issue

Postby kevin » Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 pm

Just a thought but do other manufacturers "let out" sub standard guitars? Surely its bad for publicity and certainly I would have thought reputation. Would be interested to find out if anyone knows.


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