Miking the Oberon

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BB
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Miking the Oberon

Postby BB » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:49 pm

I would really appreciate any advice anyone could give with relation to getting a good recorded sound at home for acoustic guitar; specifically for the Fylde Oberon.

I'm using a £100 Chinese-made large-diaphragm condenser and, whilst it seems fine for vocals and fiddle, I'm having real trouble getting the guitar to sound anything much better than "muddy, generic acoustic-guitar", let alone the lovely distinct Fylde sound it produces in real-life. I've experimented with positioning etc., finding the best spot to be about 2 feet from the guitar, pointing at the 12th fret. Have also done a lot of Googling about parametric EQ, so at least I seem able to tame the booming bass a little better now... but I'm going for a naturalistic, live sound and my instincts tell me that I shouldn't really have to back off the bass -12dB... And one of my very favourite aspects of the Oberon sound is it's deep, clear bass. I really don't want to lose this in recording, just the boom. Hardboard on the floor seems to help a bit, so maybe I should relocate to the kitchen...

I did read somewhere about microphone/guitar combinations, and "not to choose a mic with the same characteristics as the guitar". And the one review I read of my X1X Pure microphone praised it's extended bass-response! Is there something I'm missing? Does anyone know of a good microphone match for this particular guitar, or for bassy rosewood-bodied acoustics in general? I can't afford pro-gear, but would be prepared to invest in something which will do the guitar justice.

I will be really most grateful for any suggestions, as my sanity is eroding with listening to and tweaking the same four minutes of guitar again and again and again and again.

Best wishes to you,

BB
Around the bend, my huckleberry friend.

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Sue
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Postby Sue » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:54 am

Hi BB,

welcome to the Forum.

On the old version of Gordon's website there was a thread about microphones and positioning which I preserved for this site. You can find it via the News section ( Guitar Anoraks pages) It included an article I found from Sound on Sound which others here have found usefull. Might be worth a look for you:

http://www.giltrap.co.uk/index.php?page=news&category=05--Guitar_Anorak-apos-s_Pages&display=237

Good luck
Sue

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Recording.

Postby GORDON » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:13 am

Hi There.

Many people view recording with microphones as a black art, it's not really the case!

First of all I think it's worth investing in a really good microphone, I know it's easty for me to suggest this as a pro, but at the end of the day you get what you pay for. I use an AKG 414, which is really an industry standard microphone, not cheap but for me the best.

Mike placing is really down to what you as an individual hear. Try putting your headphones on and just moving the mike round to a position where you think it sounds best,obviously it would help if someone did this for you whilst you strum away. Usually the best position is to point the mike towards the end of the fingerboard to help eliminate any boom. In real terms you shouldn't have to EQ anything if what you hear is to your liking.

Obviously one could write a book on the subject, and people FAR more expert than I (Paul White for example) are the people to consult in depth on this subject, and Paul has written some cracking books on recording tips etc. I'm sure if you Google his name in connection with recording your will find the source of these books.

Hope the above is of some help, and I KNOW that our dear pal Russ will be commenting on this!

Best Regards.

Gordon.

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Postby BB » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:13 pm

Thank you for your replies Sue and Gordon. I've been reading the links, and will spend the evening experimenting. Good to see I'm not the only one having problems miking for a nice acoustic sound. It's a bit of a learning-curve, this! The AKG looks great [and Gordon's recordings with it are gorgeous, naturally!], and switchable pick-up patterns would certainly be worth playing with, but it's a bit out of my range at present [as was the guitar, but, well, you know how it is... and I haven't regretted that indulgence for a day]. Also, I'd run out of excuses.

Oh no! I can feel myself slipping into yet another bank-loan...

No. No. I shall resist. Will find some more hardboard for the floor.
Around the bend, my huckleberry friend.

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Russ Gannicott
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Postby Russ Gannicott » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:28 am

There's not a lot I can add to that, other than keep experimenting with positioning. Remember a well positioned 'cheap' mic will always be better than a badly positioned expensive one. Also, if you have the track space, there can only be gains made by simultaniously recording from several sources on separate tracks. Try a small condenser like a C1000 pointed toward the twelfth fret and large diaphram condenser a couple of feet away and slightly above the soundhole. If you also have a piezo 'under saddle' pick-up, record this as well as they can be a critical element in focusing the guitar's sound in the mix. They have more presence than any other pick-up owing to their extreme physical contact with the instrument.
Anyway, I wish you good hunting!
Russ

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Postby BB » Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:29 am

Thanks Russ. I haven't yet tried mixing in the under-saddle pickup, and, you know, it hadn't even occurred to me. Have tried two mics once or twice... didn't work for me... a strange phasing-effect, probably down to incorrect positioning.

Well, I've made some recording-advances since last I posted on this. Critically, I've realised [and checked] a tendency to swing in towards the mic when recording, resulting in horrid boominess... ahem. :roll:

Also, I've been fortunate enough to home-trial a couple of Rode mics; a tube K2 and an NT1A. Quite frankly, I'm amazed at the differences between individual large-diaphragm condensers. I'd kind of thought that you'd need a properly set-up acoustically-treated studio to really hear where the extra money goes, but far from it. The valve K2 was a revelation; particularly on my voice. Flattering is the word. Whereas, in contrast I found the NT1 full-bodied, clean and airy, but flippin' ruthless. Realised also that I rather like the darker tonality of my Pure mic for some situations. Both the Rodes improved the guitar-sound, but particularly the expensive one. Hey ho.

Am now spending the weekend reorganising the lounge for a less boxy acoustic. This follows a happy hour spent reverb-testing, which involved going from room to room clapping my hands and shouting Bang.
Around the bend, my huckleberry friend.

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Postby amgard » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:41 pm

Sue wrote:Hi BB,

welcome to the Forum.

On the old version of Gordon's website there was a thread about microphones and positioning which I preserved for this site. You can find it via the News section ( Guitar Anoraks pages) It included an article I found from Sound on Sound which others here have found usefull. Might be worth a look for you:

http://www.giltrap.co.uk/index.php?page=news&category=05--Guitar_Anorak-apos-s_Pages&display=237

Good luck
Sue


Out of interest I put together a page of links for all of the Sound on Sound 'Paul White Workshops'. They managed to lose the index when they went from sospubs.co.uk to soundonsound.com.

I got permission from their webmaster, and my page only includes the index to the pages.

I haven't done much in categorizing, other than bringing the various bits together, but at least they're all there (including the one on acoustic guitar recording mentioned above). You might have to do an 'in page search' until I can get it better.

http://www.amgard.net/PWWrkShops.htm

Hope it helps

Allan

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Sue
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Postby Sue » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:04 pm

Nice one Allan,

that should keep people busy for a while reading all those !! :wink:

I'll add details of your link on the Guitar Anoraks page if thats ok with you.

Thanks,
Sue

amgard
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Oxford

Postby amgard » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:17 pm

Sue wrote:Nice one Allan,

that should keep people busy for a while reading all those !! :wink:

I'll add details of your link on the Guitar Anoraks page if thats ok with you.

Thanks,
Sue


no probs putting a link


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